Dec 8 2009, 8:01 PM
heather_adkins: Welcome to toight’s chat in our Professional Chat Series on Writer’s Workshop.
Dec 8 2009, 8:01 PM
frazierje: Hi Heather
Dec 8 2009, 8:02 PM
frazierje: I sent the notification to my school. I hope some teachers decide to check it out.
Dec 8 2009, 8:03 PM
heather_adkins: Cortney is supposed to be here, too…but she was having dinner with another teacher so it will depend on when she wraps that up.
Dec 8 2009, 8:05 PM
heather_adkins: So how has your semester gone?
Dec 8 2009, 8:05 PM
frazierje: When I started thinking about our topic, I realized I needed help. I went to a grammar book. I didn’t want to , but I just felt like I wasn’t getting enough taught.
Dec 8 2009, 8:05 PM
heather_adkins: Hi Guest574! Welcome to tonight’s chat.
Dec 8 2009, 8:06 PM
heather_adkins: We had this conversation in Philadelphia. I think a lot of teachers get to that point.
Dec 8 2009, 8:06 PM
frazierje: Hi Guest 574
Dec 8 2009, 8:07 PM
frazierje: I guess, but I felt let down a bit. I have been reading stories for the past hour. I realize they have been learning.
Dec 8 2009, 8:08 PM
heather_adkins: That’s the key part, I think. Go back, read and compare what you see to the standards. I bet you can cross several off.
Dec 8 2009, 8:08 PM
frazierje: Heather, how have your classes been going?
Dec 8 2009, 8:10 PM
Guest574 (guest): Hello everyone. I have to go to a grammar book too. I know we have to teach to the standards but sometimes my students are coming to me with very little knowledge.
Dec 8 2009, 8:10 PM
frazierje: I actually have them in my car. I was planning on doing just that.
Dec 8 2009, 8:10 PM
heather_adkins: They’ve been great! The kids are starting to get tired, but we just have a week left so that’s understandable.
Dec 8 2009, 8:10 PM
heather_adkins: I get new kids in Jan.
Dec 8 2009, 8:10 PM
frazierje: Ah. Guest574, what grade do you teach?
Dec 8 2009, 8:11 PM
frazierje: Hi Guest484
Dec 8 2009, 8:11 PM
Guest484 (guest): hey ladies…this is anna
Dec 8 2009, 8:12 PM
heather_adkins: Anna Z?
Dec 8 2009, 8:12 PM
frazierje: Hi there, Anna. How have you been?
Dec 8 2009, 8:12 PM
Guest484 (guest): I was just “refreshing” myself on the k standards and it’s amazing how much MORE I’m able to cover using WW
Dec 8 2009, 8:13 PM
Guest484 (guest): Hi Jennifer, I’m good. just been super busy finishing up the semester and all… how about you?
Dec 8 2009, 8:13 PM
heather_adkins: I think the reason teachers go back to the grammar book is because you can “see” that a student has mastered a concept. Of course, the disappointment comes when that mastery doesn’t transfer to writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:13 PM
Guest574 (guest): I teach fifth grade.
Dec 8 2009, 8:13 PM
Guest484 (guest): I know it’s different in the primary grades but I love being able to integrate across the curriculum using quality literature for mentor texts
Dec 8 2009, 8:13 PM
frazierje: I am great! Going from writing workshop one day a week to doing it everyday is fabulous!
Dec 8 2009, 8:14 PM
Guest484 (guest): have you seen the book “mentor texts?”
Dec 8 2009, 8:14 PM
frazierje: I love to hear that, because next year I will probably be self-contained. The book sounds good.
Dec 8 2009, 8:14 PM
Guest484 (guest): I have just been introduced to it and am teaching a mini lesson mini lesson from it tomorrow
Dec 8 2009, 8:14 PM
frazierje: Guest574, I teach 5th grade as well.
Dec 8 2009, 8:15 PM
frazierje: who wrote the book?
Dec 8 2009, 8:15 PM
Guest484 (guest): yep, it’s basically a book filled with recommended texts and mini lessons
Dec 8 2009, 8:15 PM
Guest574 (guest): How are you doing your writing worksho every day? Please let me know. I am suppose to be doing comprehensive literacybut it does not alway happen.
Dec 8 2009, 8:16 PM
frazierje: I have a 2 1/2 hour block to teach Language arts and reading
Dec 8 2009, 8:16 PM
Guest484 (guest): Lynne R. Dorfman & Rose Cappelli, here’s the amazon link http://www.amazon.com/Mentor-Texts-Teaching-Childrens-Literature/dp/157110433X
Dec 8 2009, 8:17 PM
Guest574 (guest): Wow! I get 90 minutes.
Dec 8 2009, 8:17 PM
heather_adkins: 2 1/2 hours is great!
Dec 8 2009, 8:17 PM
brownjb0: Hey Guys! Sorry I’m a little late. This is Janna. For those who don’t know me I teach ESL in grades K-6.
Dec 8 2009, 8:18 PM
heather_adkins: Hi Janna!
Dec 8 2009, 8:18 PM
Guest574 (guest): Hi Janna!
Dec 8 2009, 8:18 PM
frazierje: For years I only had 90 minutes, but it was changed because of doing reading for 90 minutes.
Dec 8 2009, 8:18 PM
frazierje: Hi Janna, I received my book from Amazon today.
Dec 8 2009, 8:19 PM
heather_adkins: Anna I know you have quite a bit of experience with WW. How do you make mini lesssons and standards work?
Dec 8 2009, 8:19 PM
Guest574 (guest): I am expected to teach reading, writing and language arts in 90 minutes. I am struggling to get everyting together.
Dec 8 2009, 8:20 PM
Guest574 (guest): Can you use the book as a bell ringer?
Dec 8 2009, 8:20 PM
frazierje: It is difficult. That is what I did for 4 years, and I wasn’t getting everything done. My students had to do more at home.
Dec 8 2009, 8:21 PM
Guest484 (guest): from what I hear 5th grade is especially hard to do that because of the pressure & expectations put on the writing assessment…but I only student taught in 5th and have taught only K
Dec 8 2009, 8:21 PM
Guest574 (guest): I tried the homework business, but my students come back empty handes. I tried giving out candy, but my piggy bank broke.
Dec 8 2009, 8:22 PM
frazierje: Maybe you can plan on doing ww 3 days a week. Mini lessons and modeling are going to be major for you - i think.
Dec 8 2009, 8:22 PM
heather_adkins: I think one of the keys with using WW is that nothing is a one-time thing. You might teach prepositions 5 times before they get it, but it will stick, whereas it never will long term with drill and kill.
Dec 8 2009, 8:22 PM
Guest484 (guest): I hate to say this but it really it’s trial & error–it depends on the group of kids and their needs. I’m fortunate that they are a “blank slate” and don’t really have much prior writing instruction or lack of
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
Guest484 (guest): yes start small and try one thing at a time
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
frazierje: guest574 you are welcome to email me. frazierje@rcs.k12.tn.us
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
Guest484 (guest): dont try to do it all at once.
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
brownjb0: 90 minutes is a struggle… especially when teachers are expected to address so many different issues. At my school teachers have a student centered spelling program (words their way) in small groups, guided reading, fluency practice and writer’s workshop they are supposed to fit into a 90 minute block.
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
frazierje: Heather, you are so right. I have been making different word walls - prepositions are on one.
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
heather_adkins: 574-I teach high school English, 90 minutes for everything. We do not do WW every day. We rotate between reading workshop, WW, and common readings.
Dec 8 2009, 8:23 PM
Guest484 (guest): Heather, when it comes to planning have to start by looking at your standards, thinking about your goals and expectations for your students, and start by modeling and laying the framework
Dec 8 2009, 8:24 PM
Guest484 (guest): then you can really get into the “meat” of it
Dec 8 2009, 8:24 PM
frazierje: I will return in a minute. I must tuck two boys in the bed.
Dec 8 2009, 8:25 PM
Guest574 (guest): I feel the stress. My school did not meet AYP and I am suppose to have every student writing at a level 4. They are coming to me writing at a level 0. My students are burned out on writing. I had my reading coach with me today, and the kids were yelling no more writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:26 PM
heather_adkins: I deal with that, too. I first had to give them ownership of their writing, to let them tell their stories. Once they knew I valued them as writers they were more willing to do some more academic writing in preparation for the assessment in Feb.
Dec 8 2009, 8:27 PM
heather_adkins: By the time I mentioned a prompt they loved writing, so they went along with it.
Dec 8 2009, 8:27 PM
brownjb0: Yeah, I think part of the reason that kids hate writing is that they don’t see the purpose of prompts.
Dec 8 2009, 8:28 PM
heather_adkins: EXACTLY.
Dec 8 2009, 8:28 PM
Guest484 (guest): I’m not sure where you are or what your school has in place as far as a writing plan but I was talking with teacher friends this weekend and we were talking about how much it helps when the school is using the same “framework” for writing so the kids are used to writing
Dec 8 2009, 8:28 PM
Guest574 (guest): How do I give them ownership? Please help me. My school is giving monthly assessments and I am expected to move them a level every month.
Dec 8 2009, 8:28 PM
Guest484 (guest): well said heather!
Dec 8 2009, 8:28 PM
brownjb0: Gosh, that has to be hard without school support.
Dec 8 2009, 8:29 PM
brownjb0: Another great text is Aimee Buckner’s “Notebook Knowhow”– it has great mini-lessons on how to give kids ownership.
Dec 8 2009, 8:29 PM
heather_adkins: We started with memoir–they told their story. They did oral story telling, lots of topic searching quick writes, then they wrote.
Dec 8 2009, 8:30 PM
frazierje: Let your kids tell their stories. They have much to say.
Dec 8 2009, 8:30 PM
brownjb0: Ok… I hate to change the subject (and maybe I’m not exactly) but I’d like some strategies specific to teaching those dreaded grammar/language standards.
Dec 8 2009, 8:31 PM
frazierje: I have Mechanicaly Inclined on my coffee table. Everyone should have it.
Dec 8 2009, 8:31 PM
brownjb0: The teachers I work with like writer’s workshop, but they are complaining that they don’t see the results on the quarterly PAS tests.
Dec 8 2009, 8:31 PM
heather_adkins: We read a memoir as a class, and I used that text to pull my mini lessons. Dialogue was a big one. Some still didn’t use it correctly, so when I gave reading quizzes I would have them do something with dialogue. Eventually I saw the dialogue creep into their writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:31 PM
Guest574 (guest): Ok, I can do that. I will let them tell thier stories and then progress into writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:31 PM
brownjb0: I need to get Mechanically Inclined. I have procrastinated too long.
Dec 8 2009, 8:32 PM
Guest574 (guest): What is Mechanically Inclined?
Dec 8 2009, 8:32 PM
frazierje: You can make your students sentence stalkers. I have been amazed at what they find. Now, my students are starting to impress me with their own sentences.
Dec 8 2009, 8:33 PM
frazierje: It is a book by Jeff Anderson
Dec 8 2009, 8:33 PM
heather_adkins: Jennie Czarneski does something neat; she has the kids cut grammar info frm the workbooks and paste them into their writer’s notebooks. Then they have a reference AND you can say you used the books the school bought.
Dec 8 2009, 8:33 PM
brownjb0: Love that!
Dec 8 2009, 8:33 PM
brownjb0: What a clever use of workbooks!
Dec 8 2009, 8:34 PM
heather_adkins: I salvaged a bunch we were going to throw away and have my TA cut on them all the time.
Dec 8 2009, 8:34 PM
brownjb0: What about teaching the specific “vocab” of grammar?
Dec 8 2009, 8:34 PM
brownjb0: On the standardized test they have to locate the proper noun, etc.
Dec 8 2009, 8:34 PM
frazierje: Kids also like making posters to remember grammar tips they learn, like FANBOYS
Dec 8 2009, 8:35 PM
brownjb0: WHat is FANBOYS?
Dec 8 2009, 8:35 PM
frazierje: Sentence, conjuctions, sentence
Dec 8 2009, 8:36 PM
frazierje: They do have to identify some, but i think they have to identify correctly written sentences more.
Dec 8 2009, 8:36 PM
brownjb0: sorry, i’m still clueless… is it an acronym?
Dec 8 2009, 8:36 PM
heather_adkins: Not sure what FANBOYS is, but creating charts of examples of a certain thing (Proper nouns, etc.) would be helpful.
Dec 8 2009, 8:37 PM
Guest574 (guest): What a great idea! I can have my students create a flip books with thier notebooks.
Dec 8 2009, 8:37 PM
Guest484 (guest): my intermediate LC using all kinds of mentor texts and creating charts with the kids so they have something in the room to refer back to
Dec 8 2009, 8:37 PM
frazierje: for, and, nor, but, etc.
Dec 8 2009, 8:37 PM
brownjb0: Now I get it! Thanks Jennifer!
Dec 8 2009, 8:38 PM
Guest484 (guest): haha good job!
Dec 8 2009, 8:38 PM
brownjb0: I like the “sentence stalker” idea, too.
Dec 8 2009, 8:38 PM
frazierje: Are you having them use a writer’s notebook? I have my students know their strategy section
Dec 8 2009, 8:38 PM
Guest484 (guest): I love having my “Tool Box” in the back to use as a reference
Dec 8 2009, 8:39 PM
brownjb0: I know in 4th they have to identify interrogative, exclamatory, etc., so that could tie very nicely into sentence stalking.
Dec 8 2009, 8:39 PM
brownjb0: We do have a toolbox in the back of our notebook in the 4th ww.
Dec 8 2009, 8:39 PM
frazierje: Melissa Forney has some cute and helpful things for a toolbox. It is free on internet.
Dec 8 2009, 8:40 PM
frazierje: Build a sentence everyday with students is also great.
Dec 8 2009, 8:40 PM
heather_adkins: I think a large part of the stress comes from the overwhelming number of standards. We have 8 strands in 11th grade with well over 100 standards. Are the younger grades in the same boat?
Dec 8 2009, 8:40 PM
frazierje: We build a sentence around one word, we then edit, revise, and lable every word - parts of speech. We are hitting all kinds of standards.
Dec 8 2009, 8:41 PM
brownjb0: I will have to check out Melissa Forney.
Dec 8 2009, 8:41 PM
frazierje: I have even had to check some parts with 7th grade teacher.
Dec 8 2009, 8:41 PM
brownjb0: Yeah… the younger grades do also have overwhelming numbers of standards to cover.
Dec 8 2009, 8:42 PM
frazierje: We have a ton. It is just overwhelming with the pressure of raising test scores.
Dec 8 2009, 8:42 PM
Guest574 (guest): Yes, I agree.
Dec 8 2009, 8:42 PM
brownjb0: It’s amazing, though, how many standards you can “hit” with a holistic approach.
Dec 8 2009, 8:42 PM
heather_adkins: Exactly, Janna. And many you don’t have to teach because they already know.
Dec 8 2009, 8:43 PM
heather_adkins: But unless your kids are writing and you are really paying attention, you won;t know what they know.
Dec 8 2009, 8:43 PM
frazierje: Yes, it is. My students (not all) are actually becoming good editors. It is facinating to listen to them.
Dec 8 2009, 8:43 PM
Guest484 (guest): I totally agree–bottom up
Dec 8 2009, 8:43 PM
brownjb0: Right– by looking at their writing you can see which standards really need to be addressed.
Dec 8 2009, 8:43 PM
Guest574 (guest): You have given me another great idea. Have my kids be editors.
Dec 8 2009, 8:43 PM
Guest484 (guest): then I try to focus on the ones that need the top down instruction in small group
Dec 8 2009, 8:44 PM
brownjb0: Editing checklists really help with having the kids edit, as well.
Dec 8 2009, 8:44 PM
heather_adkins: And so often it’s just giving them a name for something.
Dec 8 2009, 8:44 PM
frazierje: that is something i need.
Dec 8 2009, 8:44 PM
brownjb0: Especially if you focus on what you have actually taught instead of making them try to “perfect” their papers
Dec 8 2009, 8:44 PM
brownjb0: Mistakes are part of the process.
Dec 8 2009, 8:44 PM
frazierje: checklist. They have done well with rubrics
Dec 8 2009, 8:45 PM
heather_adkins: Anna you bring up another good point–not all standards have to be covered with the whole class.
Dec 8 2009, 8:45 PM
heather_adkins: Conferences and small groups can help tremendously.
Dec 8 2009, 8:46 PM
brownjb0: The great thing about having kids edit is that they have to think about it– it increases their ownership.
Dec 8 2009, 8:46 PM
frazierje: another wall - Everything we know and use - we have listed every strategy that has been taught and that we use. This way they know what i want to see in their writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:46 PM
brownjb0: Editing has to be modeled though.
Dec 8 2009, 8:46 PM
Guest484 (guest): yes–one more thing to fit in–but not everyone needs to be “drilled” some do “get it” and go with it after the first mini-lesson and others may never…
Dec 8 2009, 8:46 PM
frazierje: Anna, I have loved my labels
Dec 8 2009, 8:46 PM
heather_adkins: and differentiated from revision.
Dec 8 2009, 8:47 PM
Guest484 (guest): yay, I’m so glad you’re able to use them!
Dec 8 2009, 8:47 PM
brownjb0: Jennifer– do you have a cumulative rubric or do you create one for each piece?
Dec 8 2009, 8:47 PM
heather_adkins: I use them, too.
Dec 8 2009, 8:48 PM
frazierje: Girl, I am getting others hooked on them. It has been fun. I can see what is going on and who i need to conference with. Oh, and who is taking up too much of my time.
Dec 8 2009, 8:48 PM
Guest574 (guest): This conversation has really given me good ideas. How often do these chats occur.
Dec 8 2009, 8:48 PM
frazierje: Every 2nd Tuesday of each month.
Dec 8 2009, 8:48 PM
brownjb0: How did you find us 574?
Dec 8 2009, 8:49 PM
heather_adkins: Every month. If you send me an email at info@middletnwritingproject.org I will send you notices of them.
Dec 8 2009, 8:49 PM
Guest574 (guest): I looked on the MTSU for help on writing. I will send my e-mail.
Dec 8 2009, 8:50 PM
frazierje: Are you a Rutherford County teacher?
Dec 8 2009, 8:50 PM
Guest574 (guest): No, I am a Davidson Coutny teacher.
Dec 8 2009, 8:50 PM
frazierje: I am so glad you joined us. I always walk away with new ideas.
Dec 8 2009, 8:51 PM
Guest484 (guest): guest 574 you should look into the middle tennessee writing project summer institute…there is info on the webpage. it is wonderful!
Dec 8 2009, 8:51 PM
frazierje: Since I teach 5th grade, please feel free to email me.
Dec 8 2009, 8:51 PM
heather_adkins: We’re so glad you found us. MTWP has much to offer on helping teachers of writing. Please let me know in the email specific areas you want help in and I can send you some contacts.
Dec 8 2009, 8:51 PM
brownjb0: 574, is there anything you have tried that has really worked for your 5th graders?
Dec 8 2009, 8:53 PM
Guest574 (guest): I am glad I did too. Yes, I am currently using grammar graphics. This has really helped my students learn subjects, predicates, verbs, and everything else.
Dec 8 2009, 8:53 PM
brownjb0: What are grammar graphics? Are they cartoons?
Dec 8 2009, 8:53 PM
heather_adkins: HAve they been able to translate that to their writing?
Dec 8 2009, 8:54 PM
frazierje: The book study I have been leading has been great. The book is Lucy Calkins = before she sold her curriculum. It has tons of ideas.
Dec 8 2009, 8:55 PM
brownjb0: what is the name of the calkins book?
Dec 8 2009, 8:55 PM
brownjb0: and, may I harass you again about the rubric… I want to know more!
Dec 8 2009, 8:55 PM
Guest574 (guest): Grammar graphics is a manipulative language program. I have seen improvement on identifying a sentence, but I still can not make the transition to thier writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:55 PM
frazierje: The Art of Teaching Writing.
Dec 8 2009, 8:56 PM
brownjb0: Do you use the same rubric each time?
Dec 8 2009, 8:56 PM
Guest484 (guest): Jennifer–I LOVE that book, it is wonderful.Ladies I’m signing off. Have a great night and a wonderful Christmas break!
Dec 8 2009, 8:57 PM
brownjb0: Bye Anna!
Dec 8 2009, 8:57 PM
heather_adkins: In keeping with making them editors, what about taking their own sentences and having them identify whatever you need them to. You could type them and have it be anonymous…
Dec 8 2009, 8:57 PM
frazierje: I have used a free website that allows you to make rubrics. It has information to use, or you can type your own.
Dec 8 2009, 8:57 PM
heather_adkins: See ya Anna.
Dec 8 2009, 8:57 PM
frazierje: Bye Anna, Merry Christmas.
Dec 8 2009, 8:57 PM
brownjb0: I used student writing as an example in teaching the structure of an expository paragraph… it was so powerful!
Dec 8 2009, 8:58 PM
heather_adkins: I bet. Owndership,
Dec 8 2009, 8:58 PM
frazierje: I get permission from the author (my students) and show work on the elmo. The student knows ahead we will be looking at their sentences or whatever.
Dec 8 2009, 8:58 PM
brownjb0: I was worried about embarrassing the student (because it was a negative example) but it was a huge motivator.
Dec 8 2009, 8:58 PM
brownjb0: Of course I asked for volunteers, so I didn’t necessarily put him on the spot.
Dec 8 2009, 8:59 PM
frazierje: I always get permission. I also make a point of showing the good stuff from that student. They all start trying harder because they want their work used. ( am i misspelling their?)
Dec 8 2009, 8:59 PM
Guest574 (guest): Signing off, Happy Holidays
Dec 8 2009, 8:59 PM
frazierje: Same to you, bye
Dec 8 2009, 8:59 PM
brownjb0: But in his personal narrative at the beginning of the year we had to drag a few sentences out of him, for this animal report he wrote a solid 5 paragraph essay.
Dec 8 2009, 8:59 PM
heather_adkins: But it makes the audience more real, and that is a big key to getting them to pay attention.
Dec 8 2009, 9:00 PM
heather_adkins: Thanks for coming. Email me your info.
Dec 8 2009, 9:00 PM
brownjb0: Bye 574! Thanks for stopping in!
Dec 8 2009, 9:00 PM
heather_adkins: Don;t you love progress!
Dec 8 2009, 9:00 PM
frazierje: Wow, that is wonderful.
Dec 8 2009, 9:00 PM
brownjb0: For him it truly was an issue of motivation.
Dec 8 2009, 9:01 PM
heather_adkins: Finding what motivates each kid is hard, but so important.
Dec 8 2009, 9:02 PM
frazierje: I feel for the teacher with only 90 minutes. One of my students asked why I am not teaching math this year and she said that we would not be able to learn as much in 90 minutes. I told my principal and he said, “Well, then you should have good reading test scores.” ur
Dec 8 2009, 9:02 PM
heather_adkins: I only have 90 minutes…for one semester. You hit on what’s most important and leave them wanting to learn more.
Dec 8 2009, 9:03 PM
brownjb0: I’m glad to hear your book study is going well, Jennifer… is it extended through the whole year?
Dec 8 2009, 9:03 PM
frazierje: I teach spelling, writing, grammar, and reading. I hope I never go back to 90 minutes. the county wants us in reading for 90 minutes.
Dec 8 2009, 9:03 PM
heather_adkins: i didn’t get to all of them, but most of kids are now self-proclaimed readers and/or writers. At the end of the day, I’ve done my job because they are going to continue to learn WITHOUT me.
Dec 8 2009, 9:03 PM
frazierje: k-5
Dec 8 2009, 9:04 PM
frazierje: Well said.
Dec 8 2009, 9:04 PM
brownjb0: You’re right Heather… fostering independence is essential.
Dec 8 2009, 9:04 PM
frazierje: I have enjoyed this, but sleep is calling me.
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
brownjb0: Me, too. It was great chatting with you all!
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
heather_adkins: Janna–I have an ESL person for you. I’m trying really hard to get him to ISI.
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
frazierje: Have a wonderful Christmas. Janna, I look forward to the book group.
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
heather_adkins: Always good to talk to you girls. Hope to see you soon.
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
brownjb0: send the ESL person my email, HEather.
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
brownjb0: Bye y’all!
Dec 8 2009, 9:05 PM
frazierje: Bye Heather, tanks for tonight.
